About Me
I take no pride in bearing a poisoned pen, and I apologize to the readers who may be offended by the content of this blog. But there are two sides to every story…and somebody needs to stand up and divulge what others won’t.
I’m LoneLiberal, and I’m a Pakistani atheist.
I have ideas and opinions that are unconventional, as far as most Pakistanis are concerned. I’m not the only one who thinks differently, but the systematic silencing of our nation’s free-thinkers, has reduced the non-religious and liberal population to a small, scattered class of individuals. It leaves each one of us with a haunting sense of loneliness, despite the knowledge that there are others out there. We seem surrounded, consumed by a right-wing sea consistently exploiting religion. Those who have placed their foot in the door to the world of degenerates, through which fanaticism spills into our glorious land.
I’m sickened by those who dismiss scrutiny of religious dogma as “blasphemy”. It shows nothing but lack of confidence in one’s own faith…for only a person of feeble faith would ever display such phobia to open conversation. Perhaps it is because they realize that if people begin to talk freely about such matters, the truth they’ve been struggling to suppress would burst out like an ugly jack-in-the-box.
This blog offers precisely that. Words. Simple, honest words that may fail to fully convince the reader or sway the devout, but will elucidate the other side of the story to them – the side that is routinely filtered out of the regular news that reaches their ears.
(exhales) So here goes..
Lone Pakistani Liberal 
Move to India
The way we’re headed, the final solution would be a mass exodus of the minorities, and perhaps even most women.
Frankly, I’d much rather see all the bigots and intolerant mullahs pack up their bags and move to India…it should be better not only for us, but even for the Muslims of this country.
Minorities(Hindu/Sikh/Christians) are welcome to India but why would you hate India so much as to send mullahs too. Keep them to yourself or move them to Afghanistan. Exodus of minorities has already occured in case you were asleep for last 63yrs, just remains are there.
You are most welcome to India.. Ignore the other comments. :))… Indians are basically agnostic even though they don’t know it..haha.. I am an atheist like you.. While in pakistan you might be pessimistic but I am convinced that chinese and Indian will be totally atheist by next 50 years and you know well about west… so don’t worry.. we will rule ;).. as they say “islam will rule”.. haha..
Be safe there…
I’m drawing a heart on your forehead. That was a 10/10 answer. Needless to say I’ve got an intellectual crush on you.
I’ve always been for one decision: get every minority out of the country into a mass asylum by secular Western states which recognize the issue.
There is no – I repeat, no – freedom, no matter HOW blinded Pakistanis may disguise the truth. This country is on a one-way ticket to – sadly, I cannot think of a better reference – a sodom or gomorrah end: get the US to fuckin NUKE the bloody country out. That’ll leave us with 80 million potential terrorists less on the planet.
Oh, and by the way, I’ve always had only one thing to say about people who piss on about minorities having rights in Pakistan: ‘until YOU are a minority in Pakistan, shut the fuck up, you don’t know SHIT’.
Are you a Pakistani, Anthony?
Yes I am. 3 generations. Although, I don’t know what that word means anymore except a nationality. It used to mean something to me. Until I woke up.
By the way, this Anthony Tony Khan Permal from IRP.
Anthony,
A fellow Pakistani here. I’m sorry you feel that way towards our homeland but I totally understand your frustration because I share many of of your feeling as well. I am a closet atheist and dont fit well in the Islamic Republic. I dont consider ppl in my family as fanatic but even they harbor ill feeling towards the “other”. Even the name “Paksitan” offends me as it is like saying ppl outside are not “Pak”. We need to change the name to something secular like Indus Republic. I’m sorry your people have betrayed the minorities time and time again.
Man i seriously dnt believe you dn’t believe in god !!! well i think thats actualy not fair…there are millions off arguments which proves the presense off a super power that is surely noone butt Allah…. who manages the whole universe perfectly !!!!!!!relegion stops uss from violence….no0o relegion supportss violence aur terrorism even not extremism !!!!!!! About islam i will sugest you to0o study the Life off Hazrat Muhamad(S.A.W) he iss the source of rehmat for the whole univerrse(not just muslims) hee prays even for the persons who0o killed her daughter !!!!!!! in islam killing one human iss the murder off the whole universe !!!!study the concept off sufism and ahl_e_bait(grand sons off Prophet) there all strugle was to0o bring peace in thiss world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! noww the believers of islam are actualy not following there relegion thats the truth!!!! dntt judge relegion by the act off some extremist followerss ……!!
To Balochi frnd.. who says :- you don’t “believe” in god… haha.. he is using the term believe… and then he says “allah is running the world perfectly”… I want to say him:- just look around you and pls tell me….. Do you find anything perfect ?? 🙂 🙂 … Pls use common sense..
Dude I am impressed with your logical perspective and knowing the other-side of story. Today I have found one of the interesting blogs.
Well done!
Ah right. Tony Khan! Nice to see you here!
I recognized Tanzeel though..
How would you define soul? What is it that keeps your body getting rotten before you die?
*I meant “not getting rotten”
Soul is defined as the center of our emotional being. It’s not a separate entity that can fly off to heavens after we die (called “Dualism”)…soul is the “software” of the brain. If there’s no brain, there’s no soul.
Why our body doesn’t rot before we die has little to do with our soul and more to do with the physical mechanisms of our body. Our body is able to sustain its cells through a number of systems:
-Cardiovascular system helps deliver nutrition and oxygen to cells throughout the body.
-Respiratory system harvest oxygen for us.
-Brain sends out vital nervous signals that keep the other systems working correctly.
If any one of these vital systems collapses, it jeopardizes the lives of cells across the body. When these cells die, so does our immune system, and our body become vulnerable to necrotizing bacteria (there are other, more complex factors involved too). These bacteria start to disintegrate our bodily tissues and cause the “rotting”.
That was quite informative, ok and what makes ur cardiovascular keep functioning, ur respiratory system keep inhaling and emiting air and ur brain sending signals. If you come up with an answer that there are other systems which provides power that keeps them running, then cud u tell me if have u reached to the level to find out what exactly is the main source, or each system is dependent upon another system?
All the functions of the human body can be traced down to a single command center: our DNA. It’s the blueprint to how our body’s tissues should form and how they should function.
If you ask, “Who designed the DNA then?”, then the answer would be that there’s no design here at all. DNA, an extremely complex molecule, looks like it has been designed but has actually been formed through billions of years of evolution. It started off from something simple, underwent a series of tiny changes that added up to form the super-complex molecule that we see today.
If your next question is, “Why did it evolve this way?”, then the answer lies in a detailed study of natural selection. DNA mutates every now and then, and nature “selects” and preserves the mutants that better adapt to their environment. For example, in a hot desert where less water is available, a lizard whose DNA randomly mutates as to allow it to better conserve water will survive longer and reproduce more as compared to the conventional lizards. The conventional lizards will slowly die out while the mutant lizards completely dominate the gene pool.
We’re the end product of a game of chance – of cause and effect – that has been going on for the last 14 billion years. And currently, we have no reason to believe that it’s anything else.
Imam Jafar Sadiq [a.s]:
“If abiogenesis (spontaneous creation without specific design) can be admitted under such conditions of regularity, then purposeful generation and definitely balanced creation can be the result of error and perplexity, since these two are opposed to abiogenesis. Such a statement is highly absurd that order and rectitude should come about without a creator and disorder and impropriety of design and fate should presuppose a Creator. He is an ignoramus who says this because anything produced without design will never be exact and proportioned, while disorder and contrariness cannot coexist with orderly design. Allah is far above what the heretics say.”
Reference: Book – Tawheed Al-Mufadhal.
Very much aware about the natural selection theory, but my question is still there, whats the ultimate source of energy that has let the ultimate system i.e. the DNA start its evolution process. Im not interested to know whats structure of DNA, why did it evolve in this way?My question is HOW? This process of evolution itself demands a source of energy and power to let it do initiate this evolution process. For a bulb u need electricity, u need kinetic energy and it does further back. Why DNA just didn’t stopped functioning? Infact why did it start mutating at the first place?
When you say “It started….”, “it evolved…”, “It mutates…” then how did they started by themselves? Are u suggesting that something was created from nothing or something was always there?
In this cosmological decade, you’ll find that energy does not come in short supply. DNA molecules do not require a unique kind of energy…the constant flow of fresh energy from the sun is more than sufficient to power the process of evolution.
Don’t confuse DNA with a machine, say, a soda-maker that can be switched on and off. DNA is simply a blueprint. As long as its physical constitution is stable, it will remain functional. At the risk of over-simplifying the structure, I might say that the DNA is like a key to the car engine, without which the car cannot start. As long as the key retains its physical shape, it shall function just fine.
The question of “how did DNA form and start working by itself” is an excellent one to which abiogenesists have come up with some remarkable theories (abiogenesis, by the way, is not a sub-field of evolutionary biology. Darwinian evolution can stand on its own with or without our ability to explain how the very first DNA molecule came into existence).
The most widely accepted idea is the Primordial Soup theory, in which a primitive replicator (most likely a crude RNA), developed in a a warm pond/ocean from a combination of chemicals that forms amino acids, which in turn make proteins. Such development took over a billion years of trial and error with well-energized molecules in water colliding with each other to ultimately give rise to a structure capable of replicating itself.
Im feeling like suffering from dyslexia. By the way when you find the answer about how did the first molecule formed and whats the ultimate source of energy and did something was developed from nothing or something was always there? then do send me an email.
PS:Keep believing in conspiracies..Good for you
Best Regards
Keep believing in bullshit/myths/superstitions… Good for you
Ibn Warqa, its the otherway around.
I love you Asad.
What do you mean Tanzeel?
Anyway, I don’t have any problem with people believing in God as a personal friend and mentor. If that provides you comfort, go for it. It’s organized religion that irks me.
Organized religion has a way of distracting people from humanism and filling up the limited spaces of their hearts with an imaginary being. In my opinion, that’s dangerous and detrimental to mankind’s progress.
Thankfully you changed the theme of your blog. I used to feel suffocated in that green.
Haha. Actually, my last blog got attacked by cyber-jihadits. Had to export the content to a new one, and I decided to try something a little softer on eyes.
Now I’m starting to wonder if the attack had more to do with its irritating theme than the actual content.
Hi
I made some comments on your blogs and You left me a message few dys back. Here is link to my blog, I will format it some time later.
http://quest4theoryofeverything.wordpress.com/
You are not alone – there are lots of exmuslims like me & you on the council of exmuslims forum on the link above. Many of whom are also from Pakistan – take a look, lot of interesting discussions taking place, but I do warn you its massively addictive!
Oh Dr. Nayeem, I have become such a massive fan of your blog. I say so unabashedly. I have utmost respect for you to be saying these things without fear of reprisal. Personally, since it depresses me to think I might be the source of an existential or religious crises to someone, and there’s the ever-present hesitation with regards to the number of extremists running around, I try not to discuss religion too much, but oh, it gets so frustrating. This blog is like a cool cloth to my feverish forehead. Kudos.
Also, I particularly enjoyed your conversation up there with Mr. Asad.
Thank you so much, bakedsunshine!
I usually have God as a personal imaginary friend. Helps me out a couple of times. But organized religion does suck, too medieval for the time. and too pompous.
Naeem,
You’re my new hero. I read your comments on the “unplanned pregnancy” blog on tribune recently, and I became an instant fan. You put your thoughts so eloquently to silence some of the superstitious (read: religious) nuts there, it was refreshing. Its also really refreshing to know that there are people in Pakistan who share my lack of beliefs and anti-religionism (coining a word here).
Thanks!
I invite the creator of this blog for debate… in Pakistan! Do you accept my challenge?
I’ve already committed to two formal debates and I may not have the time for a third one right now.
If there is a specific argument that you’d like to present, or something in particular about my blog that you’d like to respond to, feel free to do so here.
I mention again, this time we will honor you to debate with an international debater, in JAN 2012… Plz make it possible!
well seriously your aftab dear your pen is not a poisoned one .its is knife of the surgeon and pakistan really needs a surgery .i was a believer too . the word belief is really starts with deception. i means we for 100000 years has been worshiping something or other . and it is in our psychology now. no scientific evidence is being given for the divine existence .the book god delusion is the great one.it really needs a lot of work to find out the truth .about human morality, universe , our existence . nature of things. and the bullshit belief system tries to ignore that. human mind is really tricky one.
I doubt if the theists look at my blog with the same regard, but thanks! That’s very encouraging.
Excellent blog you’ve got there. It’s feels really good to see someone out there is speaking his heart out without being made to believe in a lot of bull crap or without being intimidated by fundos that are all around us.
Thanks, Salman.
@lonepkliberal: We’ll see ultimately after we die was there or wasn’t a GOD 😀 so please shut the fuck up and try minding your own business .
neither can you prove that there’s a GOD or not, and at the same time you are not able to handle the truth that all the Muslims & Christians are trying to hand you over and the reason behind it is that the government of Pakistan didn’t understood your crap and i’m glad they didn’t because you don’t have any proof!
Civilized conversation is clearly not your cup of tea. Tell me, does that kind of language make you a good Muslim?
But thank you for confirming my suspicion regarding religion’s capacity to turn ordinary human beings into emotionally unstable ignoramuses! Cheers!
yes it does make me a good Muslim and you know how because i made you realize that how pathetic you are ………well if a ignorant man like you
is up for a civilized conversation then i think i don’t .
Tell me something Mr.nayeem aftab are your parents Muslims? or are they still alive ?
Sami,
Believe whatever you’re comfortable with. I’m not trying to convert anyone to Atheism here. This is simply a place for a rational discourse on religion where we can all learn something from each other.
Don’t go around telling people to “shut the fuck up” just because they don’t share the same beliefs that you do. That is the mark of an ignorant and uncivilized person, and I don’t think you’re doing Islam any favours by uttering such obscenities.
Recognize that we all have a right to believe what we want, and to be able to express ourselves. If I don’t prevent you from promoting religious values, you shouldn’t be preventing me from denouncing them.
Investigate the religion that you follow, and make sure it’s an unbiased investigation. Don’t just follow it because of your parents or your society. Think for yourself, instead of letting your parents do your thinking on your behalf.
well i’d rather let them decide what is the best for me because i owe them their lifetime of savings and most of all their whole life that they wasted on me trying to make me a well groomed man. don’t you owe your parents that?
The children of Hindu or Christian parents would say the same thing. Is it okay for these children to follow your philosophy of “they know what’s best for me” and blindly follow their parents? Or would you like them to strive to learn, and to investigate the matter to find the truth for themselves?
And if you agree that these non-Muslim children should do research on other religions and Atheism, then it’s hypocritical of you to not indulge in such research yourself.
At the end you may stick to Islam if you like. But at least be open-minded. If nothing else, you’ll find a way to be more tolerant of their world view and learn to coexist peacefully with them.
You are not alone 🙂
Brother…I’m feeling very shamefull, sorry, and of-course REASONABLE to see what is happeining in Pakistan….ATHEISTS in PAKISTAN???
Now I can consider as a fanatic Redist, communist, or FANATIC ATHEIST (I’m agree with various issues you’ve mentioned but…I think it’s logical if you’re living in a country like this ) I also opposed a state religion….but a person who is considers religion as an old thing then you should need an psychiatrist and learn history of HUMAN BEING …but heing an human…..I think you should listen more to Javed Ahmed Ghamidi….please listen him and you will answer yourself……or if you have any question…you can do…
http://www.al-mawrid.org/pages/ask_a_question.php
Don’t just restrict yourself to Ghamdi. Listen to what the atheists have to say before making up your mind.
You don’t have to listen to me in particular, but I would recommend that you read “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins. Even if you don’t like the book or don’t agree with its content, it will provide you some valuable insight into the way atheists think.
“Because somebody’s gotta say it” – that’s interesting. Must win you a lot of flak from the unreasonable. I’m not an atheist, just a centrist, still people hurl abuse at me for things “they” cannot understand.
I shall be reading your posts Dr saab.
Thanks. The flak I’ve received for my writings has only boosted my confidence.
Several years ago, I started receiving death threats from my colleagues for writing this blog. Isn’t that funny? Here I am claiming that religion inspires normal people to indulge in violence, and Muslims try to prove me wrong by sending me death threats for expressing my opinions. I must thank them for making this easy for me!
It’s sad that you had to face that… Here in India,when I told my frnds that I have become atheist .. many of them were not surprised bcoz we have an noble tradition of “Nastika Philosophy” in this Subcontinent traditions. It still exist under so called “hinduism”…. long back “Astika Brahamans” burned most of the scriputres of “Nastika brahmans” 🙂 .. But the tradition did not completely die out and Swami Vivekanand had tried to revive it….. Even Buddha was against this “Astika philosophy” and was an atheist..but later on he was also made god by people… haha….
Hello,
Although, I am a downright theist (not extremist), and I entirely disagree with your way of life, I appreciate people who adhere to their ideas and substantiate them. First, I would say that most Pakistani atheists (especially the immature, directionless lot) are giving a really bad name to atheism with their lack of knowledge and inability to come up with a rational and convincing argument. They are no less ignorant than the extremists who view everything with their own lens. I would suggest that they contemplate more instead of quoting and paraphrasing Richard Dawkins. At the same time, they blow people quoting things from their holy books.
If someone has a ‘belief’ in nothingness, as they claim, it should come from within. Most people just jump on the bandwagon.
Second, disregarding everything that a theist would assert is yet another form of extremism. Hence, I don’t see a different between a theist and an atheist, except for the fact that there is always a never ending debate between the two, and finally a temporary lull.
Peace.
Sarah B. Haider,
There’s nothing extreme about merely expressing oneself through words, however snide and condescending one gets. It’s uncivil, sure, but it doesn’t constitute “extremism”.
The day atheists start bombing marketplaces, or refuse to acknowledge basic civil rights of women, gays or even religious groups, is the day you may accurately claim that they are just as ignorant as the ones of the religious side. Simply being rude and snarky doesn’t make one an “extremist” as well, so it’s not appropriate to throw that term around so loosely…to establish symmetry just for the sake of symmetry.
There’s also a matter of sensitivity. Theists have been trained to believe that their religious convictions naturally merit an extraordinary level of respect. One may lambast atheism, Darwin or prominent atheists all day without it being called “atheismophobia”, Say something nearly as harsh about a religious ideology, or a religious figure, and it’s sacrilege, blasphemy, Islamophobic extremism, followed occasionally by violent demonstrations.
Pol pot and Stalin was most certainly Atheist and they were infamously homophobic. So this notion of moral superiority based on “anti-theist” stance is quite questionable. Of course, the religious zealots can easily take this moral superiority argument back by highlighting their charity work, provided they can argue. So your argument essentially goes nowhere.
Above all, I am always astonished by Atheist presenting them as “logical” because that is the last thing to define Atheism. This comes from an Agnostic, btw. You don’t hear people saying they are “a-cricket-ists” as they reject cricket altogether. Carl Sagan summed up Atheist position quite well, “An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid.”
And lastly, Hitler implemented social darwinism in its purest form resulting in holocaust. Yet we haven’t seen people burn tires against social darwinism either. If anything, we are heading back to social darwinian era.
In any case, I hate to tell you this but you lack a historical perspective. Perhaps you are still exploring these ideas so it’s easier to buy into Atheist philosophy, which is riddled with logical fallacies. In the end, it’s your life you get to decide what to do with it but the ideas you are pandering are stale recycled thoughts and lack clarity. There is nothing original in these ideas. I hope you know that.
Good luck with your project.
Nawab.
Nawab,
Pol Pot and Stalin were homophobic atheists? That proves absolutely nothing. I never said that atheists are infallible, I only claimed that religion has a greater propensity than atheism to drive people into committing acts of violence and homophobia.
I don’t advocate social darwinism. And speaking of history, Hitler was incidentally a Christian. Something that’s more than evident from the belt buckels of Nazi officers with the words, “Gott mit uns” (God with us) inscribed on them.
What Carl Sagan says is true, but that goes for a fringe of atheists who have an almost religious conviction in the non-existence of God. An atheist (with a small “a”) is simply someone who does not believe in any deities, because there’s no evidence to do so. The possibility of His existence cannot be absolutely ruled out, but then again, neither can the existence of Russell’s teapot. I’m an atheist just as I’m an a-teapot-ist.
Alright, so the rationalization here is that Pot and Stalin being homophobic atheist proves “nothing” as
a. Atheists aren’t infallible.
b. Atheists are less homophobic only when compared to “religion”.
I hope you understand that this is apologist non-sense with an anti-theist twist. You define a narrow premise, an even narrower context and then quickly claim a moral victory over “religion”. Well this isn’t much of a victory or an argument as I can define a narrower context suggesting that children aged 5 of any religious denomination are less homophobic than adult Atheists. Who is to say they aren’t?
Second, I argued that no one burned tires against Social Darwinism to detest its inherent evil, not sure how “Gott mit uns” even remotely counters that. If its Christianity you blame, I wonder how you will counter the events of post-French revolution or Mao or Soviet Union. I guess Mao and Soviets would be a “communist evil” blamed on Marx, Engels, and Lenin. When clearly Marx, Engels and Lenin, all self-proclaimed atheists, designed communism as a way to catch-up to industrialized West and saw organized religion as a negative influence so they heavily relied on atheist writings. It is such apologetic arguments that drive me to assert that there is a lack of historical perspective in your conclusions.
Again, I’m quite surprised that you see no qualms in re-iterating utterly stale and recycled arguments from atheist camp. Russell’s teapot, Gott mit uns… how much more cliched can it get? There is no clarity in these arguments. These arguments simply push aside a premise so they don’t have to provide an answer.
Also, your definition of atheism is a reformist one as the original Greek one simply dictates a rejection or denial in existence of god. This is reflected in the early writings of Epicurus that atheism relies on. So you’ll have to spare me the modern “probabilistic atheism” and other gooblygook. Because I would humbly suggest that any extension of non-sense is essentially more non-sense, and will lead to plenty more non-sense.
I’m not trying to convince you of anything simply remarking that you are on a journey and you can do much better with your time, or arguments, if you aim higher. If you repeat apologist arguments you are not developing a self-falsification framework, you’re replacing one “faith” for another simply to feed the god gene. In reality, atheism is a patchwork that borrows just about everything from other movements, be it free thinkers, or materialists, or rationalists, or skeptics, or even humanists. It would be far more productive to explore those venues for your personal development than re-iterate apologist non-sense, which is an exercises in human denials and leads to Tolstoy syndrome.
p.s. My criticism is not directed towards you, a person, but atheism, a concept. So when I say atheists or atheism, it certainly doesn’t imply you.
The object is not necessarily to achieve perfection, but to seek progress. Ergo, the context of religion versus no religion. It’s the same as the context of studying the incidence of lung cancer among smokers and non-smoker. Nowhere have I asserted that atheism could solve all of humanity’s conundrums. The question has always been whether the world would be relatively better without religion.
I’m impressed that from thousands of years of human history, you managed to Google up four atheists who have had a negative impact on our world, and throw them at me to prove your point. Making no distinction whatsoever between doing something reprehensible in the name of atheism, and doing something reprehensible while you just happen to be an atheist.
Remind me, which section of the atheist manifesto condemns homosexuals? Or is that religion’s domain? I tend to forget! I recommend not being the pot that calls the kettle black.
And even if atheism was exploited by these men to further their political agendas, do you truly believe you’ve established some kind of symmetry here in terms of lunacy? I say, two can play this game. Would you like me to start listing the mass-murderers who did what they did in the direct name of Islam or Christianity? Depends…how good is your reading stamina, for it may take a while..
It amuses me, this formulaic approach. Every theist I’ve ever encountered, has dismissed simple arguments like Russell’s Teapot as “cliched”, “banal”, “asinine” or plain “irrelevant”. Not once have I actually heard an effective counter-argument. If only scoffing had been a reasonable substitute for critical thinking…
If its critical thinking you value, I’d be very interested to know what criticism you have for Dawkin’s God Delusion. Surely, unlike theists, you’re not shaping your worldview based on “one book”? A book that is all true, all knowing, and above criticism…
Not sure why you would accuse me of being a theist when I’ve already mentioned I’m not, far from it. However, if this was your attempt to probe my worldview, the concept of anekantavada best defines it. Even as a Pakistani, I find solace in eastern philosophy.
Your comment on Russell’s teapot betrays a vast ignorance. In all seriousness, I cannot fathom that you haven’t encountered a single “effective” argument. To begin with Russell’s teapot is a classic straw-man and proves absolutely nothing. Logically its a fallacy and hence irrelevant. Besides this obvious and glaring hole, we have positive evidence that Russell’s teapot does not exist i.e. no human being, as teapot is a human invention, has placed a teapot in space at the first place. And based on our understanding of the universe, we know teapots don’t spring into existence. Unless you can prove otherwise, the teapot argument will remain a nonsensical straw-man designed for intellectually disarmed.
Now I agree that atheism doesn’t condemn homosexuality. But then again, can you quote me the section in “atheist manifesto” that condemns genocide, sati, or suicide bombing? Surely, something against bestiality, rape, or torture? One can assert that atheism has a lot more moral flexibility so the acts of communist era aren’t all that surprising.
And there is no “game” going on. You’re content with looking at atheism as an “concept” based on anti-theist rhetoric and giving everything else a pass. I view atheism as an “institute” which has produced magnificent graduates who were equally devoid of morality as their theist counterparts. You think Muslims don’t disown Bin Laden? Christians don’t sweep the protestant sectarian violence under the rug? And atheists don’t disown Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? Embracing only the teapots. I don’t have any illusions of how I reconcile my collective views on atheism. I am impartial when it comes to apologetics.
Hah! That has to be the most awkward use of the term “strawman” I’ve seen in a while. And you’ve completely missed the point of Russel’s argument.
The teapot itself is meaningless. It’s a hypothetical entity. Replace it with any number of man-made, naturally-occurring or fictional items, and the argument still stands as strong as ever. Not sure how your philosophy deals with this, but in science, all is non-existent until proven to exist. At best an unproven idea may exist as a supposition or a hypothesis of convenience, but not as a fact. The onus of proof is upon the one who says “there is”, as opposed to he who says, “there isn’t”.
Which is in contrast to what Jainism, or any number of religious philosophies, tend to sell. “Facts” sans proof. At this point, you may understand my hesitation in buying them.
An atheist does not derive his moral lessons not from the imagined demands and desires of an invisible force or spirit that has not been proven to exist, but rather the real-time needs of his own, and of the world around him. The moral leeway in this case is a blessing, not a vice, as it allows us to adapt more freely to the world as it evolves. Like all other functioning citizens, I have a conscience and I follow the law. That works smashingly well on its own, as far as studies show.
I have no real need to disown Pol Pot or Stalin, because he was never “mine” to begin with. Atheism is not a club. Just as all non-golfers of the world don’t come together in a special group to discuss how they don’t play golf. They were automatically declared as such when somebody decided to invent golf.
I don’t have to be proud or ashamed of the actions of such totalitarians just as a non-golfer has no reason to be feel proud or ashamed of the actions of another non-golfer.
Hello Loneliberalpk!!! I cannot tell you how refreshing it is to know there are people like you in our country. I am totally impressed by the contents of your website. I run an online magazine in which I can allow you to voice your opinions. I didn’t have your personal email therefore i am leaving a comment here. We are currently looking for writers like you and your blog link will also appear in your introduction with every article you write. Please contact me on the email and we can work out on the details..
Again, its wonderful to see people like you in our country. Keep up the good work.
I’d be happy to write for your website, as long as I’m allowed to maintain a certain level of anonymity.
You can email me at nayeemaftab46@gmail.com
OMG, you just DONT GET IT ! do you?
I honestly thought I was alone. That no one else felt this way. That perhaps I was the madman and not the lunatics I see on the streets everyday.
Afraid to speak, yes, even to think outside the ‘norm’. We weren’t always like this, were we ?
What the hell happened ?
Finding this blog has given me not hope but at least a little comfort….
Thank you.
Wow, I had no idea there was an active Liberal/Atheist community in Pakistan! I’m Scottish Pakistani, and in my experience have never come across another person of Pakistani decent in Britain, who is either politically liberal, or irreligious. The posts on this website are incredibly heartening to read, and I’d like to commend the author of this blog for their calm, rational demeanor when arguing. These are often very emotive issues, but you manage to debate them with an admirable amount of grace and eloquence.
Thank you, RB.
Due to the nature of my writings, and because I frequently visit my home country, I’m forced to remain anonymous. Regrettably, the mainstream political environment is far too conservative to allow liberal and non-religious citizens to participate openly.
So in the meantime, the internet serves as an effective way for us to communicate our opinions and concerns to the public.
Just came across your blog. Great stuff. Pakistani Ex-Muslim Atheist here. Following your blog now.
Glad you liked it, Syed.
Marry me! Jokes apart, it’s been a pleasure stumbling upon your blog. Thanks for ascribing beautiful language to my sentiments. I’m moving back to Pakistan soon, and being an agnostic feminist, I have serious cold feet. Now, if only I can find the other scattered lone liberals, in real flesh and bone, my stay in the motherland might just become bearable.
Thanks. It’s quite a comfort just knowing that my blog posts are being read, let alone appreciated.
You can look up and join Pakistan Atheists and Agnostics on Facebook (if you’re not already a member). Plenty of fellow freethinkers there.
Hello,
Well nayeem I return to your page after a rather long time but with a broader vision and better knowledge what made me come back was a follow up email and I wanted to see the comments that I made, well going through my comments I realized that I was quite ignorant to the fact that atheists do exist and especially the ones who left Islam to be an atheist. Now all I can say is that may ALLAH guide you to the right path. There is nothing but love from me brother. And I am sorry for the comments that I made before please forgive me as of at that time I was only 15. I was a kid and kids make mistakes you cant be ignorant of that fact or can you. Just kiddin man. Take Care. May ALLAH be with you and May ALLAH have mercy on you.
Assalam O Alaikum
That’s very nice of you, Sami. Thank you.
Hiya love ur blog .eevry heard of a blog called the muslimspice its very mysoginistic .wud u write an article about it?
I just discovered your blog today. It’s like i have found a kindred spirit, as you seem to have articulated everything i have thought many times in my head but do not have the courage to say as this will alienate almost all my family and friends. But I am determined to give my son the gift of choice and true freedom of will that i only enjoy in the privacy of my mind. Your voice is important and your courage is like a beacon in the darkness around me. Keep up the good work, friend.
“Once, when a religionist denounced me in unmeasured terms, I sent him a card saying, “I am sure you believe that I will go to hell when I die, and that once there I will suffer all the pains and tortures the sadistic ingenuity of your deity can devise and that this torture will continue forever. Isn’t that enough for you? Do you have to call me bad names in addition?”
– Isaac Asimov
Asimov has been one of my favourite writers since i was very young. As he was an atheist and humanist with possibly the clearest, warmest and most logical style i’ve ever encountered, i found it to be in hindsight to be one of the gentlest possible introductions to a worldview outside Islam. I was drawn immediately to humanism, a view where truly all people are equal in the eyes of society. I struggled with atheism for a long time but what overwhelmed me was the simple observation that religion and logic are incompatible, and that it’s ok to not have all the answers right now, gives us something to work toward.